Bat Care

S1E12 This week we have two guests on the show. Hannah Van Hesteren is one of the Helpline Managers at the Bat Conservation Trust. She talks to Steve about the vital work the Helpline does each summer when it takes hundreds of calls each day from members of the public who have found an injured or grounded bat.

Gail Armstrong was the recipient of the Pete Guest Award in 2019 for her outstanding practical contribution to bat conservation. Over the last 25 years, Gail estimates she's cared for 800 bats to date in North Lancashire. She discusses what it is about bat care that's so important to their conservation.

To support the Helpline, head to their JustGiving page: https://www.justgiving.com/campaign/BatHelplineNeedsYou

Bats are magical but misunderstood mammals. At the Bat Conservation Trust we have a vision of a world rich in wildlife where bats and people thrive together. We know that conservation action to protect and conserve bats is having a positive impact on bat populations in the UK. We would not be able to continue our work to protect bats and their habitats without your contribution so if you can please donate. We need your support now more than ever. To donate please go to: www.bats.org.uk/donate  Thank you!

If you've got a great bat project or story to tell that you think other listeners would love to hear, drop us an email at comms@bats.org.uk

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Producer: Steve Roe @SteveRoeBatMan
Cover Art: Rachel Hudson http://rachelhudsonillustration.com/info

Transcript

Steve Roe: 0:06

Hello, and welcome to the final episode of Series One of BatChat. Series Two is in the making. And there's more information on that at the end of this episode. We've got two guest for you this week. As we head towards the summer, the Helpline at the Bat Conservation Trust is preparing for another busy season of taking 1000s of calls from the general public who were found in injured bats or want more information on the bats living in their house. Now, the Coronavirus pandemic has of course affected us too. So this first interview with Hannah was conducted last week over the phone whilst in lockdown. Hana, can you just introduce yourself to listeners at home and sort of how long have you been working at BCT? How did you get into the role etc?

Hannah Van Hesteren: 0:49

Yeah, absolutely. So I'm Hannah, I'm one of the helpline managers I've been working on the helpline in some way or another for almost five years now, actually started the role. While I started on the team as a seasonal member of staff in summer, I want to say someone 2015. And I've taken various jobs on the helpline since then, and I'm now one of the co-managers. So we manage its team, sometimes it's six of us. Sometimes there's 12 of us doing everything helpline I got into bats, through my local bat group actually, always interested in wildlife generally. And then I went on a bat box, check with the London bat group and held a nocturnal, and it was just the most exciting moment of my life. I looked into his little eyes, saw his glossy ginger fur. And I was in love. You know? So that's what it's like, isn't it? It's that moment you when you fall in love and don't turn back. So that's me now?

Steve Roe: 1:46

And are you still involved with London back group or you very much just BCT now?

Hannah Van Hesteren: 1:50

Well, I have been quite involved at points. I was on the committee for a while. And a trustee is actually one of the joint chairs as well, I've had to take a step back for the meantime, just while I've got some other commitments on, but I'm keen to get back out there as soon as I can, really.

Steve Roe: 2:05

So for listeners at home who don't really know what the helpline does, because I must admit, when I first started started Bauwerk it was quite complicated, because it does all sorts of things. Can you just explain what sort of things the helpline actually does,

Hannah Van Hesteren: 2:18

We're a team that takes about 15,000 in queries a year from members of the public, bad workers, people were found bats, people who have got a bat roost all kinds of things over the year. So essentially, were kind of the first port of call for answering inquiries about bats. And a lot of that will be people who have found bats, you know, out and about where they shouldn't be. So either they're injured, or perhaps they're orphaned, or really dehydrated, or quite commonly, actually, they've been caught by cat. So they call us up wanting to know what to do with this little button that they found that needs rescue. But we also in answer a lot of inquiries about people who have bat wrists. So particularly in England, we advise people on on what that means to have a bat roost and their legal protection that bats are avoided in their wrists. And what that means for a homeowner, for example, you know, if you've got bats in your loft, can you do your you know, your roofing work or your timber treatment, we provide that advice on behalf of Natural England. So those are the two big bits of work that we do. But to be honest, we also get other bits, kind of anything under the sun, we've had people calling to find out what's the biggest wingspan of about in the world or anything but related They'll call us and we're there to help as far as we can

Steve Roe: 3:38

So when people do find a grounded or injured bat, what's the actual process? Obviously, you take that call? Is it somebody from BCT that goes out? Or then does it is it other people that go and do that sort of stuff.

Hannah Van Hesteren: 3:49

So what we will do on the helpline is provide the best advice we can give about the first aid for the bat for the members of the public to do themselves. So what that often means is containing it into a box, getting it some water and something's a hide under like a tea towel. And making sure the member of the public knows to never hold about with bare hands. And then what we'll do is put them in touch with a local volunteer on the UK back Care Network. And these are people all over the UK who rescue bats in their own time, you know, with their own equipment and that sort of thing, who've said that we can give their numbers out. So where possible, we'll try and put those two people in contact. So the volunteer back carer will talk to the person with the bat, work out what's best for the bat, they might actually advise that the bats better off being released, or they might take it into care themselves. And you know, feed it up, help it get over any injuries they it's got. A lot of the time when bats have been caught by cats, they'll need special treatment. They essentially just make sure the bat is sort of happy and healthy and able to look after itself in the wild and then release it back

Steve Roe: 4:54

So how many volunteers do you have at your disposal on the database then?

Hannah Van Hesteren: 4:58

So on the network, there's almost 400 There can be individuals who sort of just do it on off their own back. But we also have ambulance drivers. So people who work closely with rehabilitators, to ferry bats from one place to another, and something back groups will also have regional health lines where they sort of self organised about how best they like to take those calls. And for a whole county, there might be one contact, who then sort of divvies them out as appropriate. I actually can't remember the final number is a few 100.

Steve Roe: 5:36

So how many calls do you reckon the helpline received during the average summer, then,

Hannah Van Hesteren: 5:41

in the busiest days in July, say we could take sort of 150 calls a day. So a good few 1000. In the summer, we take on a few extra people in Maine to help us with the increased sort of inquiry volumes. When we're our largest, there's about 10 of us in the room, at any one time phone's going off quicker than we can answer a lot of the time as well, but we do our best.

Steve Roe: 6:04

So what's the most usual cause for bats being grounded.

Hannah Van Hesteren: 6:09

So a lot of the time it will be the cat has bought in about because cats are really good at catching bats, they might not even eat it, they just like to play with them. And you know, it's a fun game for them. A lot of the time, if a cat has found a bat roost, and it's accessible to them, you know, maybe if they're sitting on the garage roof or the extension roof, for example, they can really easily just bat bats out of the air with their paws. And they'll take one after the other. And that's a fun game for them. And as you know, cats often like to bring presents back to their owners. So people will find injured bats on the doorstep or in the mouths of their cats that's really, really common, especially in the summer. A lot of the other calls we get are bats that just got dehydrated, or, you know, they're skinny. And then in the summer, when the babies are born, we get quite a few calls about babies that have got lost, either they'll have been dropped by mum, when she's sort of thrown around and it's got too heavy and the babies dropped off, or the baby has gone for a little wonder because they're quite mischievous like that, and they get lost away from their roost. And that sort of thing, sometimes a bit later in the summer as well, we get juveniles making their first flight, well, what we imagine is their first flight, and either they get lost or they get too tired, or they can't, you know, can't find their way back into the roost properly. And they find themselves in a position where they need rescuing.

Steve Roe: 7:30

And do you find that the public had generally grateful when one of those volunteers comes out and saves them from their from her bat?

Hannah Van Hesteren: 7:37

Yeah, absolutely. We've found that back rescue is one really important way that members of the public can engage with bats. So quite often finding about is, you know, the the first experience they've even had with bats in the UK. So having that close up experience is really, really exciting and unusual and quite rare. And then getting in touch with a volunteer where they can understand what's going to happen next with the bat. People love knowing if it's a boy or a girl, you know, they'll name it and that sort of thing. And what's wrong with it, will it get released, they love knowing all of that sort of thing. And what's really special as well as when the back is healthy and it can be released. If the volunteer does that with the person who found it, you know, they might go back into the garden together and they can release it together. We've started surveying people who find the bats to find out what their experience calling the helpline is like. And we've found that the results are showing that people absolutely love that sort of experience. And I'm learning so much from the volunteers that help them.

Steve Roe: 8:38

And what's the most unusual colour you've had so far?

Hannah Van Hesteren: 8:41

Well, we get many, many unusual ones, including a couple here and there where they've not actually been bats at all. So when people join the helpline they hear all of these stories of all you know, I've heard a story about someone calling about a Cornish pasty that they thought was about. And I actually my first summer on the helpline got a call from a lady who was really really scared really terrified. She was unable to go anywhere near the bat she ended up actually calling the RSPCA because of that, and it turned out to be a snail on the ceiling. So how are you sure those ones are always give us a good laugh.

Steve Roe: 9:17

And if people want to get involved and either help out with the helpline, or or actually volunteer to be one of those ambulance drivers who actually care for the rats themselves, what's the best way to find out more information about doing that?

Hannah Van Hesteren: 9:30

So you can definitely look on our website www.bats.org.uk There are a few different ways you could get involved. So we use the help of volunteers in the summer to man these calls on evenings and weekends and you could absolutely get involved in that. So contact the helpline to find out more. We give all of the training that you'd need and it's done from your own home. But if you are sort of more interested in the physical rescuing side of things, it's best to join your local back group and find out what kind of back care activities are going on there. And it might be that you can get in contact with a trainer who can either teach you how to care for about yourself, or help you get to the stage where you're able to be an ambulance driver for them. So alongside volunteering, another thing they could do is donate to the helpline. A lot of our work is unfunded. So the backcare work, for example, answering those calls, giving people first aid by some putting them in touch with volunteers that's all unfunded and completely reliant on public donations and public support. So yeah, every little helps.

Steve Roe: 10:40

And can people donate online?

Hannah Van Hesteren: 10:43

Yes, absolutely. We've got a just giving page and all of that information is available on our website.

Steve Roe: 10:48

Cool. We'll stick it in the show notes of this podcast episode. Thank you. So if you could tell people one thing before they even picked up the phone to call BS t, what would it be?

Hannah Van Hesteren: 10:59

Well, it might be a good idea to have a look on our website. First, lots of common questions people have about bats are answered online. And then if it's a sort of backcare situation, one thing I really want them to know is that they should always wear gloves, if you're asking about. And then the other thing is that we're here to help. You know, that's our job. We're here. We're available to answer any questions and sort of address any concerns that people have? That's what we're there for. So, you know, do call us pick up the phone?

Steve Roe: 11:28

Something we're asking everyone on the podcast to do is to describe the bat conservation movement in three words, which are no, I'm just throwing you this at the last minute. What three words would you choose? I would

Hannah Van Hesteren: 11:39

say, inspiring, dedicated, and imaginative amounts of, you know, different ways that people do bat conservation in their own way. You know, it could be there's so many things that you can do. And I think that's, you know, a testament to the bat conservation world.

Steve Roe: 12:00

So Hanna officer in the middle of the Coronavirus, or COVID 19 pandemic, at the moment, we're about a week into people social distancing each other how is BCT coping with the pandemic at the moment.

Hannah Van Hesteren: 12:13

So the majority of us have moved to a system of working from home. On the helpline that's quite unusual, we are usually all in an office together with our you know, it and phone setups that we need to run. And we have come up with some system. We're getting used to it. So we are very much open and available and here to help. But your patience is appreciated while we sort of find our fitting,

Unknown: 12:38

and what's it actually like to work for BCT on the helpline? Well, I love it. You know, I've been there for five years. And that's for a reason. It's really varied. It's, you know, you never know what you're gonna get on any one day. It's really good fun, especially the way that we do with volunteers. That's always great. And we're such a good little team. I like to think anyway, you know, we can deal with some really lovely back cases, but we can also deal with some really challenging ones. But part of that I think is having a really great, dedicated and passionate team there, which, you know, I like to think that we have That was Hannah van Hesteren one of the helpline managers from the Bat Conservation Trust. And if you'd like to make a donation to support the helpline, the link that Hannah mentioned is in the show notes below. And if the idea of caring for bats sounds like something you might be interested in, our next interview is with someone who's been doing it for a long time and might just inspire you further. The following interview with Gail was recorded back in February at a conference before physical distancing rules came in as a result of the Coronavirus pandemic. So I'm at the 2020 National backcare conference. And I've got a few minutes with Gail Armstrong who last September was presented with the Pete Guest award for her outstanding contribution to bat conservation. And a lot of that was down to bat care, Gail who's well known in the bat care community for the amount of work that she's done over the years. How long have you been doing that? Gail?

Gail Armstrong: 14:09

I got involved about I think it's nearly 25 years ago now. With South Lancashire bat group when I live a bit further south, and when I moved up to North Lancashire, I just carried on and because no one else is doing it. Then I sort of had free rein 94, 1994. I got involved with bats for the first time. Yeah, went on a bat walk. So advertised in the local paper. I thought that sounds like fun. And I went along and you've got chatting during the bat group started helping before you know it. Somebody said, Oh, will you go and pick that bat up? And they're just goes from there, really.

Steve Roe: 14:45

And have you got any idea of how many batches you've cared for over the years?

Unknown: 14:47

I do keep statistics and I've used them a couple of times for talks. So I think it's about 800 I think, Yeah, about that. I think about 80% of pipistrelles, but in my patch where We're in North Lancashire, we get quite a lot of whiskered and Brandt's, the small Myotis bats, which are pretty rare in a lot in some parts of the country. They're quite rare, but they turn up for us regularly. And so we feel quite privileged because most of the rare species are down south. But I always think that whiskered and Brandt's are ours.

Steve Roe: 15:16

And you have any idea why those species turn up more than the other?

Unknown: 15:19

No, it'd be really nice to know, wouldn't it? Because we've not got Leisler's bats where I am and yet the habitat is right. So yeah, very, yeah, that's what I love about that's really is that there's loads of stuff still to find out. And it can be ordinary people that will find it out. And for listeners at home who don't know much what sort of reasons to perhaps get bought in for care, Okay. About half the bats that come in and just underweight so they, they might have got caught out in a storm, or they've only just started flying, and they're just a little bit weak and can't get going again. So that accounts for at least half. The next biggest category is cats, domestic cats that are allowed out all night. will hope that and they're very good cats, sitting very still for ages. And then they only need to be lucky ones. The bats got to be lucky every day of its life and the and a cat one yes to get one lucky sway that there's three ways that cats catch bats. So the first way is yes, they can get close to a roost exit and swipe at them as they fly out. They can they find them already on the ground and just take it home. But the third way is that they just sit really still. And they watch about fly to throw to throw, they get used to that pattern and the cats very still. So the bat doesn't think there's a threat there. And then all of a sudden, the cat will just explode or panic just needs a lucky swipe. And it's brought the back down. It's pounced on the bat and injured it. And then it's made right missed.

Steve Roe: 16:48

And if people are home, we've got cats and they think all I know that my cats bought a baton in the pastures. And is there anything that those people can do to help that

Unknown: 16:57

The single most important thing any cat owner can do is keep your cat in overnight. And an old people don't think that the cat won't like it, but they get used to it. And don't forget, of course 300,000 cats are involved in road traffic accidents every year. They mostly happen at night. So it's dangerous for cats out there. It is better for the cat and for wildlife if your cats kept in overnight.

Steve Roe: 17:22

And why is backcare so important as caring for that one that actually make any real difference to the population?

Gail Armstrong: 17:28

No, it doesn't No, single bats don't make we aren't making any difference to the populations that the thing it does do is someone's decided to help that bat so they think it's important. So if their bat is important, then all bats become important, and that helps conservation. It also helps us identify roosts. So when we get a call about a baby bat, we know we found a roost because it can't be far away, because it's not able to fly yet. And so that helps us to talk to people and secure roosts hopefully for the long term. And also it gives us the opportunity to learn more about that it's amazing the things I think I've learned just from interacting with bats at that close level. So being able to tap them in learn how to handle them, learn how they develop from small to grown up. Learn the differences between males and females and the different species and how they act I think helps us to know more about that, which also contributes to constant conserving them.

Steve Roe: 18:30

And fine is it quite often that when you come across a case where you found a beaver and then you found a roost to those homeowners, homeowners often then end up doing a annual rescan themselves.

Gail Armstrong: 18:40

A lot of times, that's that's really important. We know last year, every baby that that turned up was a roost we didn't previously know about and that must have been six or eight roofs that we found. And it I still find it incredible that there all those books are out there. And people will say, Oh, yeah, I think there's about 100 there been a lot of years, you know, and, and they're not faced by and I think I think the internet and Bat Conservation Trust helps with that. Because all that information is available. When I started backcare you'd get a call and people would go, they'd be almost reluctant to tell you that they'd counted bats coming out because they thought something dirty. And they didn't know where to go for help and advice. And we could we could do that for him. But now all that informations there. And once someone's informed about the fact that actually bats aren't going to damage your property, they don't bring diseases into your house, they will come and go they will the numbers won't multiply up. Then you know they relax into it. And I think I don't think there are many times now where I go out to roost and people are very anti I don't think so.

Steve Roe: 19:49

And all the public often grateful for the help when you go out and collect that and Japan's

Unknown: 19:54

so that varies a lot. And sometimes it's the cats brought in And if the if the bats badly damaged, I do tell people, you know, this bat has been really badly injured by a cat and I'm gonna have to put it to sleep. Because I think it's important that they know that that's a consequence of their decision to let their cat out. A lot of people are really grateful and really will ring me for progress reports, assume they're usually the ones that don't make it to, to be honest. But um, but if if we do get one in, and there was something wrong, and we've made it better, and we take it back in there, see it fly away to live its life. And most people are, yes, quite pleased with that.

Steve Roe: 20:40

How much work is involved with that.

Gail Armstrong: 20:43

And again, that varies massively. So we're less busy in the winter. And it can get quite busy in the summer when we're getting three or four calls a day. But I have a good network of people who help with the backcare. So we share the load. And it never gets more than we can cope with. Because I think if it does get more than you can, you know get too much, then you won't do it for the long term. So you've got to pace yourself. And you've got to do what you can when you can. And not more than that. Because otherwise, you're not in it for the long term, you'll give up because it's too much. So for me, it's not very costly. And it's not that time consuming. The most time is finding time in your day to go half an hour or an hour to pick up the bat. Because strange thing about that carries most people think you're going to dash out there. They don't think they need to take it anywhere. And I'm not sure why bats are different than other creatures really in that regard. But it does seem to be the case. And we always do if we can we always do pick them up.

Steve Roe: 21:44

For those people who are looking to get involved, I guess that's something to make them aware of is that they don't have to worry about being inundated with a large number of bats, if they just want to pick up that one. But I guess they can just do that one and do the amount that they're comfortable. Yeah,

Gail Armstrong: 21:59

yeah. So for our, for my network. Yeah, some people will only do one a year, some people might go a couple of years. But I still have them on my list because I I just and they'll say, Well, I'm sorry, I've not been much help. But you have because you're on my list. Um, sooner or later you'll do you'll deal with about that I won't have to deal with so that helps me. So the more people I have on my list, the happier I am.

Steve Roe: 22:21

Yeah. And is it rewarding?

Unknown: 22:25

Yes. It can be frustrating and sad. But it can be fun. To me, it's fun. And if it's not fun, you shouldn't be doing it. Because I don't think in terms of the numbers about some what we're doing with them. It's very minor. And it doesn't in terms of conservation, it doesn't matter whether we do it or not. So if you're not having fun, don't bother, because that's what it's yeah, you're learning about bats, you're helping people or you you're reinforcing that relationship with bats and people that that makes people think bats are worth looking after. And yet you're learning something doing it. And if people listening at home want to get involved, what's the best way for them to start that process, I would say Join your local bat group and join BCT for sure, that's the most important thing, start reading all the information, start going out on bat walks by, get a bat detector if you can. And then if you want to get involved with backcare, then again, contact BCT. And you might you know you just do certainly my patch you do as little as you want to do. And that might just be once a year you pick up a bat and you bring it to and take it to another carrier. So you can start small. And that's how I started. I don't really know how I got here to be honest. You start small, and you do as much or as little as you want to do. But whatever you do, it will be fun. It will be interesting, and it will be worthwhile. Gail Armstrong, thank you very much. And my thanks to Gail and Hannah, and indeed all of my guests from series one for taking time out of their days to sit down with me and record their pieces. Bats are magical but misunderstood mammals. At the Bat Conservation Trust, we have a vision of a world rich and wildlife where bats and people thrive together. We know that conservation action to protect and conserve bats is having a positive impact on bat populations in the UK, we would not be able to continue our work to protect bats and their habitats without your contribution. So if you can please donate. We need your support now more than ever. To donate, please go to www.bats.org.uk/donate. Thank you. And that's it for series one. We hope you've enjoyed the Bat Conservation stories being told in this podcast. If you've got a great project to talk about or story to tell, drop us an email that comes@bats.org.uk That email address is also in the show notes. BatChat will return with series two later in the year. So make sure you're subscribed to us so that you're the first to receive the episodes when they start going live again, and so that you receive any special bonus episodes before them. With BatChat, we're trying to reach bat conservationists all over the world. So if you know someone who's never listened to a podcast before, we'd love it, if you could show them how to listen and how to find bad chat. If you can share this episode on social media. Our hashtag is#BatChat. BatChat is an original podcast from the Bat Conservation Trust. Our theme music is by Raphael Krux, and our artwork was designed by Rachel Hudson. The series producer and editor was me Steve Roe. And I'd like to say thanks to the communications team at BCT to Joe Nunez-Mino for saying yes to this project and fully back and get along the way. And to Andreia Correia da Costa for her fabulous work in promoting us on social media and getting the episodes up onto the BCT websites. And of course, a huge thanks to you, our listeners for your ongoing support.